Curse

Lonesamurai · May 07, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress Amarox

Possibly being an "Idiot" or not and whether he was known for "stupidity" by some or not, he was still screwed over and should get what he deserves.

How was he screwed over?

he shouldhave been fired a LONG time ago

blood4blood · May 07, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Looks like Articles 3 and 7 of the stock option agreement give NCsoft some leeway in how they actually pay out the option, whether in shares of common stock or cash. The complaint says he exercised his stock options and was forced to sell at a loss, implying that NCsoft paid the options with stock (but it does not say so explicitly). I still don't see an answer anywhere in the complaint or the option agreement saying how NCsoft forced him to sell, only conclusory allegations that they did so. Just as an interested observer, I rather hope the court lets the plaintiff amend the complaint to cover this issue and several others that right now appear as glaring omissions.

coil · May 07, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

give him more than 24 mill so he can find more logos for the ASF so we can win against the aliens plz

crazybanshee · May 07, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Well, I never played Tabula Rasa (pretty much nobody did lol) I won't deny he's a huge reason there's mmo games etc today. However, he reminds me of that weird matrix guy in Grandma's Boy. You know, wrote that awesome life altering program as a kid, now churns out buggy crap that nobody likes but is living off his laurels from what he's done in the past. I played Lineage 1 when he came BACK on board to turn it around, he basically promised the world then screwed a bunch of stuff up then left to go make Tabula Rasa. Gee, thanks. Plus the whole time he would write articles in PC Gamer and stuff about how great his new game was gonna be and how awesome and different etc etc. Got on my nerves. If he didn't quit, he should have put a stop to it when that letter was published, but he was too embarassed to admit he got fired. Seems like too late now, suck it up.

MMSDome · May 07, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Garriot should be sued for Tabula Rasa

Commander Kanen · May 07, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

"Garriott is allegedly accusing the publisher/developer of fraud"

Maybe i should do that. i got a perm ban. that means they took my money for something i can no longer use. interesting....

Lonesamurai · May 07, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Kanen

"Garriott is allegedly accusing the publisher/developer of fraud"

Maybe i should do that. i got a perm ban. that means they took my money for something i can no longer use. interesting....

wouldn't work cos you agreed to the terms of service and thats stated in there...

sorry XD

pumpkin pie · May 08, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

i think this could have happen:

If Richard Garriott was let go because of incompetence to deliver a great game, IE: tabula rasa, he left to pursuit his lifetime interest in a critical time of Tabula Rasa. so in order to not be shame by an incompetence termination, they offer him a voluntary resignation, which at that time compare to incompetence termination is more then welcome, so Richard Garriott took it without thinking about the stock option. NCSoft called him to deliver the news during his quarantine after the space travel, possibly to reduce any office drama. If NCSoft did actually offer him voluntary resignation to save his face of an incompetence termination...

can NCsoft proof Richard Garriott is incompetence in dong his job?

On Richard Garriott Side, I think he already build up quite a good bit of info about him getting "trick" into selling his shares option. But he has to proof that he was actually tricked. Phone conversation from the Quarantine could be important, did Richard Garriott call his lawyer during the Quarantine for advise. If he has had phone conversation with his lawyer, he probably was not tricked into selling his shares option. He could have been laying a trap for today, or his lawyers should be fired. Did he have proof that he repeatedly asked NCSoft to change the voluntary resignation to involuntary termination ? NCSoft might have refuse to change the voluntary resignation to involuntary termination because they agree over the phone that it is a voluntary resignation instead of an incompetence termination, hence the open letter of leaving was issue, and Richard Garriott after the issue of the letter wants to change his choice??

I also wander if he has bring this matter to discuss with NCSoft prior to serving them the lawsuit, because it is stated in the agreement that in case of Dispute that should be the first step.

And, not long after Richard Garriott left NCSoft he announce that he's working on a new fantasy medieval mmorpg.... which is also in breach of the agreement of not pursuing any activity that is directly in competition with NCSoft business.

hrmz. lol interesting, like reading John Grisham....

gone · May 10, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/05/...-stock-options

Just an FYI. gogo Lord British, I guess.

Pharell · May 10, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Old news, has been a few topics about this.

Chthon · May 10, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I know I'm not good at this, but I'll try and simplify what's happening.

Whether or not NCsoft in fact "fired" Garriott isn't the big issue. He had 90 days to retain his stock options either way.
Garriott is claiming that NCsoft frauded him using what is dubbed Hobson's Choice.

Hobson's choice is essentially fraud that works like this:

NCsoft dismisses Garriott.
Then let the stocks for NCsoft fall over the 90 day period he has to retain/sell his stock options
Then after the 90 day period, they report he left NCsoft on good terms, write up a fake letter under his name, and their stocks go back up.
If this happened, then it is indeed fraud.

Garriott is also suing for the damages he received in the course of this process, if he isn't returned his lost stock options.
Both amounts appear to be equal. So, he's intending to sue for either the stock or the damages incurred.

If I missed anything or that doesn't really simplify it, someone let me know.

1. I think you misunderstand the meaning of the phrase "Hobson's Choice." The term simply means a "take it or leave it" choice, often where "leave it" is particularly unappealing. It is not a "type of fraud."

2. The gist of Garriott's claims is this: How long he had to exercise his stock options depended upon whether his departure was voluntary or involuntary. He claims NCSoft announced his departure as voluntary even though it was involuntary, and thereby forced him to exercise his stock options when the market was low.

3. As JR's article points out, there's several things wrong with this.
First, in reality, it sure looks like his departure was voluntary, so his whole case could well be crap.
Second, negative tax treatment for waiting would have forced him to exercise his stock options by the same deadline anyway.
Third, NCSoft stock tanked before the rest of the market and stayed low until recently, so it's not like it was at an unnatural low because of the recession and he could have known at the time it was going to go up.
Fourth, he's probably in the wrong court.

Buster · May 10, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

We do not know all the facts here and chances are we probably will not, so everything is pure speculation here at best. What I find odd though is that it seemed that NCsoft was fully supportive of Operation Immortality and they even were using this project to make money, hoping that Tabula Rasa and the company's stocks would benefit from this. Apparently it did not and all of a sudden here comes Richard Garriot's letter and later a lawsuit. Very odd indeed.

Coney · May 11, 2009, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

The suit said if Garriott was terminated by NCsoft, the options would remain in effect until June 2011.

The fact that this is actually true boggles the mind.

Stock options are used as an incentive to hold onto strong performing employees; a sort of carrot-on-a-stick, so to speak. I find it hard to believe any company would write up their options policies to allow (under-performing) terminated employees to exercise options years later.

This doesn't make any sense - I guess it's some federal guideline those goonies in congress slip into law, for their own benefit (EDIT: sounds like the scummy golden parachute the chairmen/board likes to give themselves)...

EDIT: So when did he execute/sell these options? That nice link earlier with details suggests he was granted 120,000 shares at ~$100, back on May 30, 2001, which required 2 years to fully vest (really short vesting period - mine required 7 years, back in '91). That same article suggests that in May 6, 2009, the price was *up* to $112.

So, presumably he exercised/sold when the stock was somewhere between $100-112. If it was less than $100, he was an idiot to exercise it (taking instant loss on purchase, i.e. definition of WORTHLESS options).

This $12 over cost on 120,000 shares is only $1.5 million, presumably taxable as long term capital gains rates (20%?) if he held it - which he apparently didn't. So short term rates (28%?) hit that, leaving ~$1 million *MAXIMUM* profit, had he been able to exercise after the 90 day grace period (he could have exercised and not sold, but a huge investment required).

Apparently he exercised these options in Feb 2009, when the stock price was somewhere between $50-57. WHOA!!! This F*^&ing moron bought 120,000 shares of a $50 stock for $100 a share?!?!?!?!? By doing this he took an instant loss of $6 million (cost $12 million). I still can't see where this $24 million figure might be coming from - multiplier effect?!?

pumpkin pie · May 11, 2009, 10:39 AM // 10:39

But but but...

guess scenario conversation 1:
ncsoft: We have decided that its time we part company with you. (ask Richard to agree to part company)
Richard: No, I don't want to part company with you. (Richard is reluctant)
ncsoft: The vote is unanimous, the decision is final. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: Ya, whatever, if it come to that, i guess I'll leave. (Richard finally agrees)
ncsoft: Here you are, we've already draft an open letter for you, to inform the gaming community. Please read it carefully, if there's no problem, we'd like to publish it immediately.
Richard reads
Richard: Ya whatever, pursuing other interest sound good.(He agrees)

news spread through the gaming community.

if that is the case he did agree to leave voluntarily

guess scenario conversation 2:
ncsoft:We have decided its time you leave the company. (ask Richard to agree to part company)
Richard: I'll never leave the company, its my life's work! (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: But you did not deliver, and the decision is final. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: I will never leave, thats' final. (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: The decision is final! You have no say over it. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: Fine, I guess you'll have to fire me then. I won't leave voluntarily. (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: By the way, can you approve for us to publish this letter of you leaving the company to the gaming community. (Ncsoft tries to get Richard to sign the open letter)
Richard: Screw you. (Richard disagrees strongly)

ncsoft publish the open letter anyway.

news spread through the gaming community.

*Disclaimer: none of the above actually took place, it's merely some kind of a speculative fan-fiction.

Buster · May 11, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

But but but...

guess scenario conversation 1:
ncsoft: We have decided that its time we part company with you. (ask Richard to agree to part company)
Richard: No, I don't want to part company with you. (Richard is reluctant)
ncsoft: The vote is unanimous, the decision is final. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: Ya, whatever, if it come to that, i guess I'll leave. (Richard finally agrees)
ncsoft: Here you are, we've already draft an open letter for you, to inform the gaming community. Please read it carefully, if there's no problem, we'd like to publish it immediately.
Richard reads
Richard: Ya whatever, pursuing other interest sound good.(He agrees)

news spread through the gaming community.

if that is the case he did agree to leave voluntarily

guess scenario conversation 2:
ncsoft:We have decided its time you leave the company. (ask Richard to agree to part company)
Richard: I'll never leave the company, its my life's work! (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: But you did not deliver, and the decision is final. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: I will never leave, thats' final. (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: The decision is final! You have no say over it. (Ncsoft is adamant)
Richard: Fine, I guess you'll have to fire me then. I won't leave voluntarily. (Richard disagrees strongly)
ncsoft: By the way, can you approve for us to publish this letter of you leaving the company to the gaming community. (Ncsoft tries to get Richard to sign the open letter)
Richard: Screw you. (Richard disagrees strongly)

ncsoft publish the open letter anyway.

news spread through the gaming community.

*Disclaimer: none of the above actually took place, it's merely some kind of a speculative fan-fiction.

I think that it would be more funnier if any of this is true. I can only imagine the look on NCsoft's face when they saw the stocks didn't rise much if any at all during his great space adventure or the shelf life of Tabula Rasa. I'm sure the braintrust wanted to forge a letter asap or maybe that is what they did. Hmm......

Coney · May 12, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

These supposed *NCSOFT stock options* were never really worth a dime.

Why?

Here's why. What's the current (and historical) trade volume on them? I'm guessing very low.

So you have some schmuck who exercises 120,000 shares and wants to sell them. I'm betting he's lucky if he can sell in a block of 100 (maybe 500) before a new price is negotiated.

By selling a block, he drives prices lower (probably by $2-4/share). By selling merely 1000 shares *AT THE CURRENT PRICE OF ~$120/share, he's prolly driven the stock price below his option buy value.

This is such a penny stock scam, it's pathetic. Only the Koreans valued the stock above $50 ever since 2000...

EDIT: by being a TOTAL MORON and buying 120,000 shares at an option price of $100 when the price of the stock was $50, this guy was definitely tossing $6 million ($6 million still in stock, $12 million total cost) based on some legal assumption/scam (This sounds like manipulation).

He could have simply bought 120,000 shares at that time for $6 million, and have $12 million in shares now (IF ONLY HE COULD SELL THEM FOR $12 MILLION!!!!!!)...

R.Shayne · May 12, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

If that idiot wins, or worse ... I suggest Anet looks for a better publisher. Otherwise NCSoft 'flag titles' such as Aion and GW2 will introduce more and more and more and more microtransactions to pay for dying company. At least, it's the way I'm looking at it.

The problem is, ANET is owned by NCSoft, ANET is just a development studio.

NCSoft owns all rights to Guild Wars, name, art, ... everything. If the people at ANET did leave NCSoft they would have to establish another development studio and a new game franchise to sell to a new publisher. That new publisher would then own the rights to the new game franchise.